The Orlando Massacre
From a Naybob of IT... The day of the Orlando shootings, when homophobia, a shooter, and a gun killed 49 people during the “Latin Night” at the Pulse LGBTQ nightclub...
A friend commented: "The Orlando shooter claimed for allegiance for ISIS just before the dirty deed. There were some clues in the past that he might be trouble. However, he was an American citizen, born in New York. Thus, sending him back where he came from was not really an option. The tough question is where do we want the line drawn between the right to be free of government harassment just for having certain unpopular opinions and doing everything possible to pull these maniacs out of population, even if it means sometimes falsely arresting people? How much freedom are you willing to give up? I'm not sure exactly where I fall on this question. What do you think?"
We commented: "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." - Poor Richard's Almanack (1738): Benjamin Franklin
"Let me add, that only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters" - letter to the Abbés Chalut and Arnaud (17 April 1787). Benjamin Franklin
Someone else commented: "I don't think that phrase means what you think it means: Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." and linked to an NPR diatribe on the context of Ben Franklin's comment.
We responded: "From the NPR transcript: "And maybe it doesn't matter so much what Franklin was actually trying to say because the quotation means so much to us in terms of the tension between government power and individual liberties. It's a nice diatribe on the origins of the Franklin's statement, which is a non sequitur to my commentary and the context at hand."
The original poster commented: "Everyone, pretend my original question was "How much PRIVACY are you willing to give up?" There's a lot more to this issue, especially when dealing with American citizens."
We commented: "rephrasing the question does not eliminate the central issue. Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
Many have nothing to hide, however, living in an Orwellian fishbowl is not a desire. Give "them" an inch, it will be so far up there, that the ministry of information will know what you had for breakfast. Proper rejoinder to Orewellian guvmint intrusion should be NONYA and don't tread on me.
Watching the first 15 minutes of Brazil (1985) might give some perspective as to what is happening right in front of us. If you watch the whole film, you'll realize Terry Gilliam is a genius, he called the shot, spot on, 30 years in advance. How did he know?"
A friend commented: "The Orlando shooter claimed for allegiance for ISIS just before the dirty deed. There were some clues in the past that he might be trouble. However, he was an American citizen, born in New York. Thus, sending him back where he came from was not really an option. The tough question is where do we want the line drawn between the right to be free of government harassment just for having certain unpopular opinions and doing everything possible to pull these maniacs out of population, even if it means sometimes falsely arresting people? How much freedom are you willing to give up? I'm not sure exactly where I fall on this question. What do you think?"
We commented: "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." - Poor Richard's Almanack (1738): Benjamin Franklin
"Let me add, that only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters" - letter to the Abbés Chalut and Arnaud (17 April 1787). Benjamin Franklin
"Democracy is not freedom. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch. Freedom comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote." - Marvin Simkin, "Individual Rights", Los Angeles Times, 12 January 1992
"To finally answer your original query, I would never give up any of my freedom for any cause. One should never take any right for granted, nor be so careless as to freely give them away. There exists no emergency or crisis large enough in scope or scale to justify such idiocy on the part of the unsuspecting public. Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection to any authority, deserve neither and will eventually lose both."
Someone else commented: "I don't think that phrase means what you think it means: Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." and linked to an NPR diatribe on the context of Ben Franklin's comment.
We responded: "From the NPR transcript: "And maybe it doesn't matter so much what Franklin was actually trying to say because the quotation means so much to us in terms of the tension between government power and individual liberties. It's a nice diatribe on the origins of the Franklin's statement, which is a non sequitur to my commentary and the context at hand."
The original poster commented: "Everyone, pretend my original question was "How much PRIVACY are you willing to give up?" There's a lot more to this issue, especially when dealing with American citizens."
We commented: "rephrasing the question does not eliminate the central issue. Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
Many have nothing to hide, however, living in an Orwellian fishbowl is not a desire. Give "them" an inch, it will be so far up there, that the ministry of information will know what you had for breakfast. Proper rejoinder to Orewellian guvmint intrusion should be NONYA and don't tread on me.
Watching the first 15 minutes of Brazil (1985) might give some perspective as to what is happening right in front of us. If you watch the whole film, you'll realize Terry Gilliam is a genius, he called the shot, spot on, 30 years in advance. How did he know?"
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